Heated Debate between a Christian and Pantheist 1 of 3

Round one

Christian writer:

Hi Mike

I recall you saying the last time we had lunch that you did not believe anymore that Israel is God’s chosen people. Is that correct?

I was reading the following passage today and thought of you:
Deuteronomy 7: 6-8 (Moses speaking to Israel just prior to possessing the Land God had promised their forefathers)
6 “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. 7 It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8 but it is because the Lord loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

According to this, they were (and still are) God’s chosen people. What do you think? Valid? That is, unless you no longer believe the Bible to be God’s holy word and the foundation of truth.

Anxiously awaiting your reply. :-)

Dave

Pantheist reply:

Very well done Dave, but I’m afraid you may not be ready for the answers; these are the types of questions I have wanted you to build up to at a latter time – but so be it.

Do you realize that every tribe in America believes they are ‘their God’s’ special people and all others are of a lesser order? They honestly believe none of them are related. And as a side note, I must admit their existence is quite an anomaly in itself; as the Holy Scriptures makes no account for people living on the underneath of the flat Earth.

Did you have any idea that the Mormons used to be in possession of the golden plates showing indisputable proof that Jesus had shifted the ‘chosen people’ from the east to America? Are you aware that the Jehovah’s witnesses are the only 144,000 that will be singing the special song at the end? Did you have any awareness that Mohammad makes the very same claims and as his people are from the eldest son, they are – according to themselves – rightful heirs to Abraham’s estate?

Honestly, my dear friend, I am so glad to be out from underneath this whole concept that someone has to be better than someone else in order to be saved or what have you. The God which I serve is no respecter of person; every one of us was created in the image of God. The Hebrews are not of some higher pedigree than myself; maybe you and others who want to cling to their favoritism doctrine are of a lesser quality, but not me my friend, not me.

I believe being created in the image of my Father puts all His power at my disposal that I choose to believe in; like Jesus, I and my Father are one. I came from God, He is my essence, without Him I would not exist; it is absolutely impossible for me to be unwanted or possibly overridden by a favorite. I cannot see myself ever acting that way toward my children; I would never disregard one and cherish the other.

I sure as hell would never send my son of another woman into the desert with the anticipation of their death, just because my wife was tired of looking at the hot woman which she allowed me to have sex with – but then again I don’t come from that holy stock now do I, so I wouldn’t understand? Abraham, according to the Holy scriptures, makes not even so much as a titter about how this might be a little wrong. (The term ‘grow a set’ comes to mind)

Unconditional love means: I love you no matter what – no matter what! And if I who is encased in the awful sinful body can muster up enough courage to behave in such a common decent human manner towards my children; I ridicule and shun the primitive minds of a flat earth mentality who ridiculously still believe that their God is so debase as to choose one over another.

Even Jesus makes several elitist statements which are the exact scriptures that justify Billy’s belief in predestined salvation. Ironically, if you look into it; those kinds of scriptures can only be found in the Gospel of John – none of the other Gospels allude to this elitist mentality. Also, you might find it interesting to note that the Gospel of John does not coincide with the other three; which do mostly relate to one another. Exactly what do you think has caused millions of millions of lives lost in ‘Holy wars’? The concept that; “I am chosen by God and you are not; making me better than you and God endorses me in my right to kill you for being different.” It sure isn’t the concept of love and forgiveness that Jesus tried to tech us.

You ought to study history just a little bit; it is amazing what you can learn. Did you know that Martin Luther signed a document claiming that he order the Peasant massacre, but being such a humble man he said he couldn’t take credit for it as God had told him to do it; therefore, all glory for that one and all other holy murders belongs to God. I often wonder what God has to say about all this incredulous folly.

“I, Martin Luther, have during the rebellion slain all the peasants, for it was I who ordered them to be struck dead. All their blood is upon my head. But I put it all on our Lord God: for he commanded me to speak thus” [Tischreden; Erlanger Ed., Vol. 59. p. 284].

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/09/luther-i-have-slain-all-peasants.html

Now I shall address your rhetorical question of “That is, unless you no longer believe the Bible to be God’s holy word and the foundation of truth.”

Let us examine where this scripture comes from; the same place that we find that the Universe was created in 6 days, right – the book of the law – the book of Moses – the Pentateuch – the Torah? Isn’t this the same book, which once it was finished it was placed in the holiest of holiest places, behind a veil and in an ark – an ark where God continually sat, and only one man once a year was allowed in there? (Deut 31:26) The same book that later when king Solomon was dedicating his newly built temple wanted to lay eyes on the mysterious book and lo and behold it was missing.

Isn’t this the same book that was mysteriously discovered just lying around the temple some 350 years later by the high priest Hilkiah? (2 Kings 22:8 & 2 Chronicles 34:14-24) If it was missing all this time, how did he know it was the book of the law? Oh that’s right you would say “He received divine inspiration from God exhorting him of the book’s authenticity.” Well, then why was the king and the other priests skeptical? (damn disbelievers) And just how did they verify the authenticity of said book? Did they do what Jews are famous for – did they meticulously investigate it with a fine tooth comb to decipher the mystery? No, probably because no one had a clue what should be contained within it, as when it was in existence, 350 years ago, it resided safely and obscurely under the buttocks of the Almighty.

So, these great men of God did the next best thing; they took it to Huldah. Who was Huldah; she was the famous witch of their time, and obviously she spoke for the Devine because she didn’t need to open the book and she started her proclamation off with “Thus sayeth the Lord…” So you see it absolutely must be the “lost for 350 years word of God” because she said so. After this they never put it back into the ark; I guess they found a safer place for it other than under God’s buttocks.

(Dave you know you questioned this unusual practice when you read it; but like me, you pushed those questions back in the recesses of your mind, along with several others.)

Now, I know you are very familiar with the captivity of Babylon and I’m fairly certain you are aware of what those people, who believed they were acting on behalf of their benevolent God, did to the Holy word. They burned it. I am also certain that you are well aware that Ezra – who, ironically, according to Ezra 7:1, was the great grandson of Hilkiah – affirms we are to have no fear as he and 40 scribes rewrote it in 40 days. (2 Esdra one of the Apocrypha)

But at this point in time should we not refer to it as the book of Ezra? How did he have such an accurate memory of such an enormously elusive book? How can we be absolutely certain that his memory is dead on balls accurate? What if it was in this day and age when someone had to rewrite it from memory; would such a man be trusted to reproduce such an enigmatic work?

No, my dear friend, I do not trust it. But you are more than welcome to unwaveringly put your trust in it; it won’t cost you your mortal soul either way. But, yes I’m sure it has always, in every version, proclaimed the Hebrews to be the chosen people of God. How else can you justify the murder of thousands upon thousands of men, women, and children whose only crime was, that they happened to reside in the precious promise land? But that is simply and irrevocably their own fault for not being born under the proper pedigree.

I love you Dave and thanks for prompting me to write this; it was high time I got inspired to get this off my chest and put these thoughts on paper… Michael